Comments on: What About the “Good” Choices and Acts of Unbelievers? http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/ Enter the past-time of pontification... Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:27:19 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Jessica http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/#comment-41 Jessica Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:36:25 +0000 http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/#comment-41 Doesn't scripture tell us that God appoints our good works? Doesn’t scripture tell us that God appoints our good works?

]]> By: Ben http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/#comment-27 Ben Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:17:46 +0000 http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/#comment-27 This is something I've thought about a lot as I've ingested different views on common grace. Were people like Ghandi or Confucius "good" in any meaningful sense? Or does God view their actions as on the same level as Lenin's or Bin-Ladin's? I'm not certain that the Bible teaches a doctrine of total depravity in practice so much as it teaches a doctrine of total depravity by nature. In other words, left to our own natures, we will all act in a totally depraved manner. But it doesn't work out that way in practice. Obviously, even the most committed unbeleivers do not act totally depraved all of the time, and some people (Lenin) act more depraved than others (Ghandi). I, like you, cannot find anything in Scripture that allows me to attribute this to Ghandi's own goodness, or that allows me to say that Lenin deserves hell any more than I do; I must attribute it to God's common grace. That grace (to borrow Jessica's thinking from above) allows good works to come out of a heart that has set itself up as the center of attention and devotion, and it's the only thing that holds this world together. By the way, I like your idea about a joint-effort post; but I think I don't know enough about common grace yet to do one on that topic. Maybe we could try something else? This is something I’ve thought about a lot as I’ve ingested different views on common grace. Were people like Ghandi or Confucius “good” in any meaningful sense? Or does God view their actions as on the same level as Lenin’s or Bin-Ladin’s?

I’m not certain that the Bible teaches a doctrine of total depravity in practice so much as it teaches a doctrine of total depravity by nature. In other words, left to our own natures, we will all act in a totally depraved manner. But it doesn’t work out that way in practice. Obviously, even the most committed unbeleivers do not act totally depraved all of the time, and some people (Lenin) act more depraved than others (Ghandi). I, like you, cannot find anything in Scripture that allows me to attribute this to Ghandi’s own goodness, or that allows me to say that Lenin deserves hell any more than I do; I must attribute it to God’s common grace. That grace (to borrow Jessica’s thinking from above) allows good works to come out of a heart that has set itself up as the center of attention and devotion, and it’s the only thing that holds this world together.

By the way, I like your idea about a joint-effort post; but I think I don’t know enough about common grace yet to do one on that topic. Maybe we could try something else?

]]> By: Braden http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/#comment-26 Braden Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:48:57 +0000 http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/#comment-26 "If unregenerate man can distance himself from his sinful nature and do good works, then what is Jesus for?". I think that just cause a person does a good work (i.e. giving to charity, helping the homeless) it doesn't mean he's gettin anything from God, or that he/she is a good person now(i.e. Oprah), Jesus came to save us from our sins, no matter what we do we cant earn salvation. I'm kinda confused, you say "After all of this, it can be said that before salvation, people are completely in captivity to a nature where nothing good resides." I thought you believed that there was no act of salvation, God chose those who would go to Heaven and those who would go to Hell. Doesn't salvation imply that we become Christians, not we are chosen? Just curious, see ya tomorrow in class “If unregenerate man can distance himself from his sinful nature and do good works, then what is Jesus for?”. I think that just cause a person does a good work (i.e. giving to charity, helping the homeless) it doesn’t mean he’s gettin anything from God, or that he/she is a good person now(i.e. Oprah), Jesus came to save us from our sins, no matter what we do we cant earn salvation.

I’m kinda confused, you say “After all of this, it can be said that before salvation, people are completely in captivity to a nature where nothing good resides.” I thought you believed that there was no act of salvation, God chose those who would go to Heaven and those who would go to Hell. Doesn’t salvation imply that we become Christians, not we are chosen? Just curious, see ya tomorrow in class

]]> By: Jessica http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/#comment-25 Jessica Thu, 08 Feb 2007 06:56:19 +0000 http://bereanmethod.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/what-about-the-good-choices-and-acts-of-unbelievers/#comment-25 I think that if an unregenerate does "good works" it probably is a way of thinking good about himself. Vanity is gross. This is what got that Angel in trouble that was thrown from heaven wasn't it? Pride can be a motive for "good works". I think that if an unregenerate does “good works” it probably is a way of thinking good about himself. Vanity is gross. This is what got that Angel in trouble that was thrown from heaven wasn’t it? Pride can be a motive for “good works”.

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